I didn’t want to talk about Virginia football today. It’s a tired story. Three games, three losses. What more is there to say?
Well, unfortunately, there is a lot more to say, even if you only talk about this weekend’s collapse at Southern Miss. Like, Virginia led 34-17 with only 22 minutes left in the game, then gave up 20 unanswered points and lost. Or, the Cavaliers couldn’t do anything in the fourth quarter on offense, but Southern Miss scored two touchdowns on drives of 53 and 68 yards. And, Jameel Sewell had the game of his life — 312 passing yards, two TD passes, and 2 TD runs — but the rest of the running corps combined for 55 rushing yards on 20 carries.
In the grand scheme of things, though, Virginia’s problems run much deeper than its late-game ineptitude against Southern Miss. They go beyond the spread offense’s inability to move the ball on the ground. The Cavaliers’ problems start at the top, with coach Al Groh. In the words of many, Groh must go. The question is not if he should lose his job, but when.
I don’t know how anybody can argue that Groh is worth keeping around. For players and former players, it’s a sensitive issue: Groh is their coach, and they feel an attachment to him. But to outsiders, including fans and journalists, the case is pretty clear. Virginia is 0-3 this year, including a home loss to an FCS team and a road loss after being up 17 at the half. Last year, Virginia’s 5-7 record included a 35-point loss at Connecticut, a 28-point loss at Duke and a four-game losing streak to end the season. The Cavaliers haven’t won a game since Oct. 25, 2008.
Virginia hasn’t won a bowl game since 2005 and hasn’t beaten Virginia Tech since 2003. Since his first season at Virginia in 2001, Groh’s teams are 1-7 against Tech. If there are any benchmarks that usually allow coaches on the hot seat to keep their jobs, they are bowl wins and rivalry game wins. Groh’s track record in both regards is not good.
Although Groh has had five winning seasons in eight years at Virginia, four of those were from 2002-05. This year is set to be his second losing campaign in a row and third in the past four years. I don’t think many coaches get more leash than that. Going into this year, Groh’s record at Virginia was 56-44; fortunately for him, even a winless season this year will keep his record at .500.
So, yes, this should be Groh’s last year in Charlottesville. But, I believe Virginia needs to wait until after the season to can its coach. I simply don’t think it would do this team any good to fire him now and I don’t think there is anyone better out there to take the team for the rest of 2009. You can’t promote from within — offensive coordinator Gregg Brandon has not shown any reason to be given the reins, and Groh is the defensive coordinator. Special teams coach Ron Prince is the likeliest to get a promotion if Groh is fired midyear — as he has head coaching experience from his days at Kansas State — but I think Virginia needs to have a longer term plan in mind.
That plan starts with a phone call to the 804, to Richmond coach and former Virginia defensive coordinator, Mike London.
“Hey, Mike, how are things at Richmond? I mean, I know you went 13-3 and won the FCS championship during your first year there and you’re already 3-0 this year, including a win against Duke. I know you played at Richmond, you’re a hero there, and you just got a two-year extension through 2014. But, hey, you wanna come back?”
The funny part is that UVA implemented their ticket extortion program w/ the defense of “that’s what other premier programs do.” Is this “premier?” Good article, but I think you have to go even higher up w/ the root of the problem…rhymes w/ “wittlepaige.”
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I understand your reason for waiting for the end of the season to fire coach Groh, but why wait.Why not salvage what we can of a dissappointing season as well as start to look at the possible candidates for next year. There will be a sigh of relief when it happens and the hurt and pain will stop for now. When you have pain you try to get relief to stop it not contiue to let it hurt you. Thanks.
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I agree. The problems run very deep and I almost feel it was just deserves. I was a season ticket holder for over 20 years. I grew up loving UVA football. I was there when we beat Clemson for the first time, and when we were the first ACC team to beat FSU… I miss The Blue Blazers and orange ties, the smell of Bourbon on an October Saturday. I thought the reason they forced Welch out was because they did not think he could bring UVA Football to the next Level. Groh and his “Sea of Orange” has clearly brought the program down a level. Wins are Down, Attendance is way down, and team morale could not be lower.
As for Littlepage.. I hope he chokes on my season tickets as my seats were forced out of my possession last year. This is how the athletic dept treats loyal, long time fans.
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Dear New Hoos:
The last football losing streak we had — a 17 game D-1 disaster that was the longest in the NCAA for D1 schools at the time — stretched from the last three games of the 1980 season until deep into the 1982 season. In that time, UVA only beat VMI, a 1-AA school. And, even when the streak mercifully ended with a close victory against Wake Forest (*Guess who was the gift giving coach for the Deacs? Yup, Coach Groh), we still went on to lose all of the remaining D-1 games in the 1982 season. So that was a 17 game D-1 losing streak wrapped in a 21 out of 22 game losing stretch.
Here’s a little more info that might help you Gen Nexters in evaluating what you’re witnessing in real time. Take it as a gift during the “bye” week from a ghost of the pre- and post-dawn era:
The present streak is a carry over from the four game skid that closed out last season. Thus, the first game of this season is actuallyl Game 5 of the present losing streak. This was similar to my first year at UVA — 1981 — in which the season began on the heels of a 3 game skid from the prior 1980 season. Game 5 of what would become “The Streak” back in the ’80s was a 3-0 loss to Rutgers in week two of the 1981 season, which roughly compares to this year’s loss to the Tribe in terms of general competitiveness. Game 6 was a 29-24 loss to Duke (which I believe was a home game, but really can’t recall now). Obviously Game 6 of the present streak was not competitive, so that’s a difference I guess. Game 7 of The Streak, however, was a close loss to NC State, 30-24, which may also have been at home. That parallels with the close loss to Southern Miss this past weekend.
After the NC State loss in 1981, however, came a paddling administered by Clemson, 27-0, in Game 8 of the Streak. We didn’t see that one coming, especially after having only lost to the Tigers by 3 points the previous season. This loss gave us the first true whiff of the stink we were going to make for the rest of the season and well into the next. It began to sink in then that we were in for a long, hard slog.
Like the present, there was no clear pattern to the losses back then, other than the obvious: we kept losing. Several of the losses were competitive games we just didn’t pull out. We were outclassed and outgunned a couple of times (e.g., Clemson and Maryland the year before), but we were game enough for folks to think that a couple of quality wins were close at hand (sound familiar?). But boy oh boy were we ever wrong.
Fast forward to the present. We’re now approaching Game 8 — UNC in Chapel Hill. After the 4 point loss to Southern Miss, which showed signs of promise, there is the suggestion (for any interested in it) that a corner has been turned and the team is about to get on track. That is very similar to emotions after the 6 point loss to NC State back in 1981′s Game 7.
Back then, I remember the collective “uh-oh” I sensed after losing 27-0 to Clemson, and wondering what it meant for the rest of the year, standing there on an 8 game losing streak with no teams left on the schedule that we’d beaten in a while, except, of course, VMI.
Even so, I can assure you neither the team nor the students nor the fans (actually, only students and alums were “fans” of the team — there had been no Orange Revolution at the grass roots level) we had no sense that we wouldn’t win a D-1 game that year. (Sounds like Jameel, doesn’t it?) Or that we wouldn’t get another D1 win until well into the 1982 season, or that we wouldn’t get another D1 win after that one until the 1983 season. What was really amazing about the team/program that ultimately would only win one D-1 game out of 22 in that time period (end of 1980 through the beginning of 1983) was how things never, ever looked like that result was even possible. But it happened just the same.
Using that experience as a yard stick, what’s happening now is that the program has brought a four game slide from last year, stretched it to 3 more games this year (including a loss to the Tribe), and is looking at a near certain loss UNC next weekend. Maybe Butch Davis will do an Al Groh, circa Wake Forest, redux and give us a win in Chapel Hill. One must doubt it until one sees it, however.
(*Mind you, before Bestwick lost the final 3 games in 1980, he actually won 4 out of the previous 8 games to that point, including a 16-13 win over Tennessee. Not unlike Groh’s team last year, which got to 5-3 before giving up four straight to close the season. Isn’t that an interesting parallel?)
I say all of that to say that the true comparisons to be applied to Coach Groh, now that the Welsh legacy has been completely washed out of the fabric, is to Bestwick. The truth about the program under Coach Groh was initially masked by the luster the program had when he came on board, and the sheer legacy of Welsh’s on-field and recruiting success. Now, that luster is gone and what is left is truly Coach Groh’s. And it really looks a lot more like Bestwick than Welsh or Welsh+ to me.
I’ve certainly seen enough of this to know what I’m watching. But most UVa fans don’t have the benefit of the history that I and others from the Bestwick/Welsh transition era have. I thought you might appreciate the facts from a guy that went to every home loss, sat through every defeat, and wondered every Saturday, “when does this get better?”
One other thing: back then, we had a basketball team that featured a kid named Ralph Sampson. Virtually the entire school sort of tolerated the football team anyway as a take-it-or-leave-it appetizer before the main entree — ACC Basketball — was served. We were perennial 30 game winners then, we had the Naismith player of the year award locked up with Sampson, and we were pre-season top 10 in Sampson’s 2nd through 4th years (’80 through ’83, I believe). If you beat us in football, we usually got you back — TWICE — in b-ball.
You guys don’t have that though.
Good luck with the rest of the season.
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Ron Prince would be a bad hire for UVA. He’s a poor recruiter, and his personality/actions chased qualified assistants from the program. HS and JUCO coaches reopened the doors to KSU as soon as Ron left.
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After the season, they should fire Groh, then hire the best coach available, regardless if the person has ties to UVa or not.
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I’ve been saying that we should have gotten rid of our pathetic head coach for about 4 years now. Even in 07 when we were in the midst of that 5 or 6 game win streak by winning games by just one point.
This man just doesn’t have a clue and somebody needs to start a Groh-ism web site. I swear, everytime this moron opens his mouth and tries to sound profound, he just ends up coming across as insane or completely disillusional.
My favorites of the last couple of weeks:
“We’re not trying to prevent losing, we’re trying to win.”
or my favorite:
“You’re got to tune out the love and tune out the hate.”
Or in Groh’s case tune out sanity and rational thinking.
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I absolutely 100% agree with this columnist. Grant it UVA didn’t have a real rich football tradition to begin with, not the likes of say an Alabama, Clemson or Notre Dame, but there was some what of one & Groh has totally destroyed it. The 10 win season in 1989 (the only one in the schools history I might add) is now looming large over the team (we don’t have a program). Welsh’s 2 ACC titles in 89 & 95 are also looming large as Groh has never even sniffed one. The new offense is a joke, the special teams are non-existent & there is no running game. Groh needs to be fired and should have been fired last year, I freely admit I was a big time Groh supporter when he got there & he did everything to prove he deserved the job, but losing the Gator Bowl like they did, just giving up in the last part of the 4th, last seasons record of 5 wins and it should’ve been worse & then on top of that the performance against VA TECH. I would be ashamed to have people pay that kind of money, waste 4 hours at the game to watch a team & a coach that could care less. “Tune out the love & tune out the hate” I tuned out my tickets this year by not getting season tickets.
As long as he is down there as coach, UVA will be nothing but mediocre.
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At this point, I don’t even feel like we can fault Groh any more. He’s consistently not met expectations, but stays employed, so why should he do differently? What no one else is mentioning is that his “successful seasons” were built upon George Welsh’s teams, recruits, conditioning, plays, etc etc. The first couple of seasons were fun b/c the talent was there, and Bill Musgrove brought exciting plays.
The past few years have been an embarassment to Virginia tradition. Yes, we were never a football powerhouse, but we had the “athlete-gentleman scholar” thing that we could at least throw in the Hokie’s faces (i.e. Tiki and Ronde, during my tenure at UVa). Groh’s recruits have damaged that reputation. We held our own in the ACC and even played some really good teams (I too really enjoyed the first loss FSU had in the ACC).
In the past, men’s basketball was more of the marquee sport for UVa. We had awesome basketball and it was fun to watch.
Football and basketball are the only two sports that generate more revenue than their expenses, and yet those two sports are the two where Virginia fares the worst. The athletic director’s job is to look at the whole program, and make sure that the two programs that are funding the others are in good shape. Craig Littlepage has failed miserably in this regard. The last contract extension for Groh was horribly disappointing – yes, he was winning some games, but always at the last minute, always by a point or two, and always by a fluke. If he was really coaching, we wouldn’t have been in a position where we needed to do that.
Littlepage can’t/won’t make the tough calls and thus keeps driving both programs into the ground. I’m hopeful the new basketball coach can do something for us.
For the sake of the remaining fans, just FIRE GROH NOW and move on!!!! The fans won’t care about the losses for the rest of the season under an inexperienced coach (I don’t even care who it is), because UVa will have made the statement that it won’t tolerate the further destruction of the program. As a season ticket holder, I want and need this to happen, so I can root for the team again. I can’t get past Groh and the frustration to even support the team the way I should.
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