New coach Mike London was not the only replacement at Virginia football games this year. For the first time since its formation in 2003, the marching band did not perform “Rugby Road” as part of its pregame show, replacing the song’s time slow with the peppy but more modest “Hoo Time.”
This change sparked such controversy that band member Keirstin McCambridge began an online petition before the Nov. 13 home game against Maryland to “reinstate Rugby Road as an integral part of the college football experience,” according to the petition. McCambridge then created a Facebook event to encourage students to sign the petition.
Although the petition collected 293 signatures from band members, students and alumni, the Facebook event wall saw severe backlash from the community, including statements that the song promotes sexual violence, excessive drinking and vulgar language. As a result, McCambridge canceled the Facebook event, stating in a message to its participants. “Seeing as several people have taken offense to this part of UVA culture, the event will be removed.”
The controversial song’s lyrics begin with the chorus:
From Rugby Road to Vinegar Hill, / We’re gonna get drunk tonight. / The faculty’s afraid of us; / They know we’re in the right. / So fill up your cups, your loving cups, / As full as full can be / As long as love and liquor last, / We’ll drink to the U of V.
For some individuals, these lyrics serve as light, if crude, entertainment. But there are many people, including second-year college student Saheel Mehta, who are less than impressed.
”When reading the lyrics, you would think the school is run by old rich white guys,” Mehta said. “Each additional section added on to the chorus is written by males. But there is much worse stuff along the same themes in modern rap songs — stuff that is actually praised.”
Different versions of the song’s lyrics include verses with degrading depictions of rival colleges — such as Virginia Tech and Boston College — and demeaning portrayals of specific sororities, as well as explicit sexual images.
In response, the student organization Feminism Is For Everyone sent University President Teresa A. Sullivan a letter expressing its members’ concern about the song’s portrayal of the University.
“Throughout the 35 verses, the song continues to degrade and devalue college women and inaccurately portray the men at our university as arrogant, disrespectful and sexually aggressive,” the letter stated.
Other students, such as Caitlin Campbell, a clarinet player in the Cavalier Marching Band, feel that many individuals are overreacting to the song. Campbell said she does not believe a majority of students know more than the chorus, which refers only to drinking.
“There are some student organizations which pride themselves on their knowledge of the additional verses, but that knowledge is not the norm,” she said. Consequently, she added, concerns of the song promoting sexually aggressive behavior are overblown.
FIFE members disagree, believing the song’s lyrics are especially inappropriate in light of the sexual assaults University students have experienced this semester.
“The very fact that there is a movement to try to bring this song back to U.Va. shows that many in our community have learned nothing about diversity, respect, or gendered violence from the events of this past year,” the letter stated.
Campbell, however, said the lyrics to this controversial song are not posted on the JumboTron as they are for other songs, such as the “Good Ol’ Song.”
“People who are offended by ‘Rugby Road’ are only considering the lyrics of the song,” she said. “The instrumental version [which was played in the pregame until the 2010 Virginia football season] is a 35-second part of the pregame entertainment at U.Va. football games, and the performance by the Cavalier Marching Band has no U.Va.-sanctioned relation to the lyrics whatsoever.”
But the offensive lyrics were not the reason for eliminating the song from the show. William Pease, who has served as the marching band’s director since its formation, said he has modified the arrangement of the pregame performance for each season.
For the marching band’s first performance, Pease said he “put in some U.Va. songs that the original marching band played in the early and mid-1900s. I also used other songs as well. ‘Rugby Road’ happened to be one I used for its melody … The song was never played to promote violence or drinking.”
Likewise, Pease said he chose “Hoo Time” simply because of its quicker-tempo tune.
Nevertheless, Campbell said she does not believe “Hoo Time” is an adequate replacement, largely because of the stronger traditions associated with “Rugby Road,” along with the song’s catchy melody.
“The Cavalier Marching Band’s pregame show is meant to entertain and to pump up fans, but I think the unfamiliar song with unknown lyrics only confuses or disinterests them,” Campbell said.
Second-year College student Megan Tiller agreed that band performances have lost their traditions with the loss of “Rugby Road.”
“Rugby Road is a song that sets U.Va. apart from other marching band traditions,” Tiller said. “The marching band is relatively new so it shouldn’t change everything already.”
This controversy is not the first to have affected University bands. Before the marching band’s formation six years ago, the Virginia Pep Band performed “Rugby Road” among other songs before football games from 1974-2003. This “scramble band” focused on members running across the field to form shapes, as opposed to the concept of marching in uniform lines.
The Pep Band’s performances were at times considered inappropriate and offensive. The University athletic department banned the Pep Band from performing at athletic events after it was forbidden from playing at bowl games in 2002 because of a particularly controversial portrayal of West Virginia residents during the Continental Tire Bowl.
In the future, though, Tiller said she hopes the University can combine characteristics of the former Pep Band with those of the current Cavalier Marching Band to produce performances that merge the “old school charm that U.Va. boasts with new traditions.”
Like the Pep Band before, the tradition of performing “Rugby Road” has been replaced, but only time will tell if either one can be brought back to the field on gamedays.
Damn shame when folks lose their sense of humor.Damn shame to lose Easters weekend because folks couldn’t handle it.Guess Foxfield will be next.So much for that freedom and pursuit of happiness thing!
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Why was the marching band not utilized this year? In my opinion that was one of the first signs that some maturity was coming to Charlottesville.
It seems the school cannot be like everybody else that is a “State Universty” and represent residents of Va. in a mature and common sense manner.
Richard
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I agree with FIFE about the importance of educating everyone about gender violence. I also think that FIFE needs to fully understand what “diversity” means. It would seem that the FIFE members don’t think they need to be tolerant of different opinions. There is a middle ground that can be pursued, one that would have the playing of “Rugby Road” and also educating about gender violence.
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of course you are all guys speaking in defense of this ridiculous song…
If U.Va brings back a song about raping women and other sexist bullshit
it will only prove the type of sexist institution U.Va still is and the type of morons that are still admitted
you people are a disgrace.
if you can’t bring back old school charm without denigrating an entire segment of the U. va population, something is wrong…
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This caving in to the PC types makes me sick. Tradition means something at UVA. What a bunch of fuddy duddies.
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One of the things which has always set UVa apart is it’s respect for and desire to maintain tradition. This little song has been played at football and basketball games for many years. It has become one of those traditions which thousands of UVa students over more then many years have associated with their UVa experience. Lets have a vote open to all UVa students and alumni over whether to retain this as the UVa fight song. I refuse to believe that a handfull of PC types speak for the majority of students and alumni.
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The chorus or first verse is the only one I or my classmates (61) knew. It was catchy and it would be a shame to lose the tradition. There are many other ways to promote gender and other Cultural Awareness issues without sacking From Rugby Road. Careful or Duke will lose its’ “Devil with the Blue Dress On”!
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You know, FIFE could spend a few minutes writing other verses instead of working to suppress the insuppressible. Virginia ought to have a course called How To Get What You Want By Being For Something.
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I think the PC B#!!$#!^ has gone too far this time.My oldest daughter attended the University and found nothing wrong with the traditional ditty.
There will always be someone that will add raunchy verses to any song–ignore them and stick with the original. To quote the gecko’s former drill sergeant instructor–don’t let a few “Jackwagons” throw ice water on the good memories.
Starting now, the funding solicitations will be placed in the circular file. I will resume when I hear the one verse version of “Rugby” again.
BA 1959
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the PC B#!!$#!^
wow and you are not sexist at all….
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It’s clearly a dangerous song. I recall many of my classmates going on drunken, rapacious rampages after listening to just a few verses. And of course it’s bad for UVa’s image, because I’m sure everyone who hears the lyrics believes it’s an accurate depiction of the U, rather than a silly sophmoric ditty usually sung in an early state of inebriation.
Apparently this song is so incredibly potent that the mere melody (never mind the lyrics) cannot be played by a band, due to the harmful influence on young minds.
I’m looking forward to seeing the list of the other melodies, and possibly books & movies, that FIFE and its fellow travellers would like banned in order to protect our youth from these pernicious images and ideas.
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Is FIFE also going to get upset because there are no females playing football? It is a tradition, and to stop it because a minority wants to is wrong. Seriously get over yourselves because if you think that the song inspires rapist try half of the hip hop music played as part of the warm up. And the marching band performed Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody at the Richmond game- did it inspire anyone to shoot someone?
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The matter is not that the song inspires rapist. 1 in 4 women at U.Va have been raped. Imagine hearing a song that pokes fun at the situation.
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Female Hoo,
Next time you’re in the Women’s Center , ask them why they have taken part in covering up rapes at UVA for so long. There was a violent sexual assault few dozen feet from their front door that the administration told local media not to cover, so they didn’t. Now they are, as is tradition, shielding and protecting the perp because he is a UVA student who attacked a woman who was not.
Most people are aware that this stuff goes on all the time around here. Not only is the Women’s Center and FIFE silent about these things – they are some of the very people involved in keeping things quiet.
Huguely’s early attack on Yeardley Love in a frat house was also hushed up. But you’re you’re all up in arms about a song? I agree that verses with rape scenarios would only be sung by losers, but you need to get a grip on far bigger issues all around you.
http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/
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Female Hoo must be using an extraordinarily broad definition of “rape” by claiming that one of every four co-eds at UVA has been raped. That just isn’t credible.
I’ve been enjoying “Rugby Road” since I enrolled at the U. in 1972. I knew there were some subrosa “extra verses” that got progressively more raunchy, but they rarely surfaced and to this day all I know is the first verse and the chorus. The melody – sans lyrics – makes for a great pep number at sporting events. It’s crazy to ban the whole number just because a few bumpkins have written additional verses that hardly anyone has ever heard.
Heck, there have been some pretty raunchy versions of Jingle Bells over the years, but it’s still a Christmas — oops, I mean holiday — favorite.
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let me direct you here:
http://www.student.virginia.edu/~1in4/index.htm
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i have posted a link for you…it is awaiting moderation
if you would like more knowledge of the statistics to which i am referring to, please type in 1 in 4 uva into google…
also, i think it is really amusing that most of the commenters graduate in ’71, 72 and 76….
women were only admitted to uva in 1970 … im sure it must have been a real drag when you had to start respecting women and they got to attend school with you right?
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Female Hoo, you really need to just relax. I can absolutely guarantee you that 1 in 4 women have not been raped (as said earlier, you must use a very very broad definition of it). You’re pretty much making feminism NOT for everyone by going on your malicious rants that I have seen. Don’t try to force everyone to believe in your radicalism. Yes, rape isn’t good, but the song isn’t promoting rape. Not the part we want played, at least.
The song is sung for the first set of lyrics. For tradition. I bet some people are all up in arms about streaking the lawn because it’s public nudity and breaking the law, no? It’s a drinking song, a type of song popular in many countries. Stop the PC BS.
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“If I were to see a U-bag [coed] / A-walkin’ down the Lawn, / I’d build myself a gallows / And string her up at dawn.”
“He’ll take you to his fraternity house / he’ll fill you full of beer / and soon you’ll be the mother of / A bastard cavalier.”
it doesn’t matter which lyrics you want to be sung, if these lyrics are being sung, there is a problem.
Yeah, these are some really classy lines…don’t promote violence to women at all…NO WAY!
and UVA “Gentleman” how exactly can you guarantee that 1 in 4 women have not been raped?
“broad definition of rape?” I want to hear YOUR definition of rape while we are at it. Rape Is Rape. There is no such thing as “broad definition of rape” Thats the exact type of language rapists use to justify their actions. It is quite alarming to hear this type of talk from a UVA Gentleman.
Also, Why don’t you research and look at the national statistics that indicate that 1 in 4 women are raped OR better yet, visit the women’s center website..
And i guess at this school it IS a “radical” idea to be respectful to those of the other gender or race.
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1) The UVA Women’s Center pretending to be helping prevent sexual assaults by consistently covering them up on behalf of the administration is like saying North Korea is trying to make peace with its southern nieghbors by shinking their ships and shelling their islands. Notice none of these brainwashed, frothing FIFE types will dare venture a word about what has happened recently, the victims who say the Women’s Center is part of the problem, or why it is that the Women’s center somehow can’t get even one arrest with all these thousands of rapes goin on every day at UVA.
2) “If I were to see a U-bag [coed] / A-walkin’ down the Lawn, / I’d build myself a gallows / And string her up at dawn.”
You’ve NEVER heard anybody sing that, ladies. You’ve just read somebody write it. Did somebody you know make it up just so you have something else to rant about? You can put stupid lyrics to ANY song, you know. And who wants to bet that these FIFE types start moving their butts, shaking their fists, and singing out loud when Snoop Dog starts bragging about having some o his bitches and hos?? You want to hear some misoginy, just turn on some top 40 radio..
3) “He’ll take you to his fraternity house / he’ll fill you full of beer / and soon you’ll be the mother of / A bastard cavalier.”
um… This happens pretty much 5 nights a week on Rugby. Reality is reality. Doesn’t seem to ever get less popular with the girls.. Thanks to folks like FIFE and teh Women’s Center, there are exactly zero of those “bastard cavaliers” who surive on Grounds – regardless of how they were conceived. UVA hospital now kills them in house as a state funded university – 2600+ and counting – every single week. That reference REALLY must harken back to an earlier time! There are no survivors who get to be bastards – or anything else – around here! The girls in the Kill House under the bridge make damn sure of that.
4) To the gents who’ve wandered onto this site after 35 years away from your beloved grounds – I’m afraid this is just the tip of the iceberg. Casteen was good at raising money, but he was also good at turning UVA into a partisan political machine that produces thousands of these radical marxist, female supremacist ravers.
He also made sure that UVA’s new rampant drug culture was protected. UVA is now a university where a frat guy can drop dead at 21, and it’s not news. Local media isn’t permitted to dare investigate cause of death, and nobody seems at all interested save a few. Same goes for what was in George Hugueley’s bloodstream that night back in May. A woman I know was violently assaulted by a would be rapist on the corner some weeks back next door to the Women’s center – but since he was a UVA guy and she was not – that isn’t news around here either. Johnny Boy had complete control over the media and what they could and could not report when he left. And with Sandridge still creeping around, he hasn’t really left.
Forgive these kids ranting at you. You can’t entirely blame them. They’ve had this stuff pounded into their heads by professors all up and down some of the CLAS departments. In their new world view, you are horrible people just for being white males and having been alive in 1960. You know, before Stokely Carmichael, Margaret Sanger, and Angela Davis came to save us all from rapes, crimes of all types, and make our inner cities paradises forever more. Beleive when I tell you, they are being taught at UVA that these are the real American heroes of the 20th. century. I don’t think they mention Charlie Manson anymore – unless they can spin it as “gender violence.”
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This song is disgusting. I do not want to go to a school where misogynistic sentiment is upheld by tradition. I love UVA, but it cannot be argued that the atmosphere here is not always conducive to respect of women and minorities, and playing this song would be a blatant endorsement of this disrespect. I do not care if they only play the first part of the song, because the rest exists. The facebook group that supported bringing this song back was plastered with comments like, “My dad wrote this verse!!!!” There is obviously pride in this tradition, but why should we as a community support pride in disrespect?
While this song may be enjoyable for some, it makes others very uncomfortable. Why should we knowingly make members of our community feel embarrassed, degraded, and as if they do not belong?
Rape is NEVER something that should be celebrated or treated lightly, and this song clearly displays this attitude. There is absolutely no reason that this tradition should be upheld.
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A couple of quick points:
Female Hoo – you posted a link which tells us nothing. It’s great that there is a “1 in 4″ organization with admirable goals, but it doesn’t tell us why anyone should believe that 1 in 4 UVA women have been raped. If you want anyone to believe that, give us a link to the study describing the methodology.
Don’t give us any crap about it being a drag that we finally had to respect women in 1970. I’ve been married to a ’73 grad for 38 years. I realize my friends and I aren’t a scientific sample, but in my group, I’m pretty typical. We haven’t stayed married that long by being generally disrespectful to women because of their gender.
As I asked facetiously before, if you want to ban a mere melody because someone attached nasty words to it, where do you want to stop banning things? I guess most rap music (possible oxymoron) would go, as would a number of films and books. Tell us where you want to draw the lines, and why the rest of us should agree with those lines.
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I never said rape was ok. It’s not. The song that people made lyrics to after the original drinking song was made. Anyone can take a song and make dirty lyrics out of them. Have you ever heard dirty lyrics to “Row, Row, Row Your Boat”? They’re not nearly as popular as the original. Does that mean, since dirty lyrics were made to them, that we should ban singing that song? It’s not justified.
The song we are promoting is the original song, a UVA tradition concerning being college students and heading down to Rugby Road to drink. Tell me, does a song about drinking make you uncomfortable? If you want to get rid of the song, your attack should be on drinking, NOT on what the song ISN’T ORIGINALLY ABOUT. It’s like banning a song because Weird Al made a parody that some people sing that to the tune of the original but with changed lyrics. I will repeat: Rugby Road is NOT misogynistic. The lyrics UVA grads made up, that aren’t part of the original or real song, are.
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It is pretty apparent that most of the people reading this article feel that there is nothing wrong with the song rugby road, especially the older crowd, so rather than trying to explain why we shouldn’t play this song I would like to try to form some sort of middle ground.
First of all UVA, like every other college around America has a high rate of rape, sexual abuse, and many other voilent problems which we can all agree are bad. Some of the added verses to the song do contain strong sexual references, but it is just a song.
So where do we draw the line?
I like to look at it like this-
If UVA was running for a political office (as a candidate) we would naturally want to win. We would be able to get a lot of support because we have strong traditions like old drinking songs, old victory cheers (Good Ole Song), old Fraternities and Sororities, and tons of others. This is definitely what makes UVA, UVA. But a candidate for a political office must also be careful as to how easy it is to find dirt on these traditions. While the extra verses are not common knowledge at UVA, if i were the candidate running against UVA for the political office I would dig them up and use them to exploit UVA.
So what I propose I think can be agreed upon by most of the reasonable people at UVA. Let’s keep the drinking song traditions in the Frat Houses and in the backyards of house parties and out of the “official” image of UVA.
And on a lighter note, hopefully our football team will start getting better so we won’t need to be getting drunk at football games!
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And the extra verses aren’t widely known but they are still published on a University webpage. We should probably change that too! Once again, just save those for drinking in frat houses!!
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Dear old people,
Please stop hating progress and go do something else with your life than reliving your fond UVA moments by reading old Cav Daily articles online. Trust me, its still not that good!
PS stop wearing ties to the football games. that is stupid.
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There is a documented list of offensive verses, many with the name and class of the author attached, which is accessible through the virginia.edu website. A VIRGINIA.EDU website documents the verse
She’s a helluva **** from Agnes Scott;
She’ll **** for fifty cents.
She’ll lay her *** upon the grass,
Her panties on the fence.
You supply the liquor.
And she’ll supply the lay.
And if you can’t get it up, you sunuva a *****,
You’re not from UVa.
You cannot argue that this is a negative representation of our school.The different verses are meant to be applied to whatever school we play. This is disgusting. Why would you want to emphasize our school’s connection with such misogyny? This is not some generic rap song or random offensive verse. This is ABOUT UVA.
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I also would like to know how some people who are commenting are defining rape. I do not find it hard to believe that one in four UVA women have been pressured against their will to engage in sexual activity or have been engaged in sexual activity without their own consent. I have no trouble believing that at all.
Also, in response to the comment that FIFE “does not understand what diversity means,” perhaps you are missing the point? Playing the song and supporting such a tradition of misogyny contributes to an atmosphere in which objectification of women and making light of rape are ok. When this is the prevailing culture in which you live, a few more rape/gender violence education classes tossed at the new frat boys can only do so much. As a member of FIFE, I am not particularly concerned about upholding misogyny as part of “diversity.”
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Colleen Coyne,
Religious people, those not in the Greek system, conservatives, those who don’t drink or do drugs, republicans, Tea Party supporters, and those who study a lot are degraded and made to feel like they don’t belong here all the time. People like you are a big reason for that. That goes double for any Townie who dares get attacked by a UVA student, even a female. As is usually the case around here, you have no interest in anybody that isn’t side by side with you in your rabid, female supremacist extremism. Just listen to yourself frothing on about some silly drinking song. You may think you are the thought police, but you are not. I look forward to the day you are out in the real world and have to look back on some of the unfortunate things you said to UVA grads simply asking you why it should be that an old song should vanish simply because somebody put some stupid extra verses into it.
None of them, us or you should ever again utter one word of the “Good Ole Song” because a few chaps replaced a few words with “I am not gay” at a few football games a few years ago – right? Get a grip. Better yet, put that energy towards studying for finals. That degree you’re getting will probably be useless in the real world, but you should do your best while you’re here anyway.
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Sean,
How presumptuous !
I am sorry that you think the law degree I am perusing will be useless in the real world. What is your definition of useful? I am not in the Greek system, I grew up Catholic, and I do not use drugs. Those who study a lot are not made welcome here? When was the last time you took a look around the library? I am sorry that you think my opposition of this song devalues and people who stand up for equality devalue “Religious people, those not in the Greek system, conservatives, those who don’t drink or do drugs, republicans, Tea Party supporters, and those who study a lot,” but I really fail to see how.
Perhaps you should do a little more investigation, because feminism is definitely not about “female supremacism,” and I do not think that objecting public, university endorsements of sexism is “extremist.”
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I am just amazed!
But really I should not be surprised.
You would think a school that just lost a female student to violence would want to be extra sensitive to issues such as gender violence….but there are far too many drunk frat boys and dumb alumni running around who get all in a tiff when someone mentions gender equality and respect…
oldhoo72, if your marriage is so great, please get off the cav daily website and go home to your wifey who i am sure you respect very well given your very intelligent comments on this site
and sean, everyone knows you are a chauvinist little boy….you hate women, that is clear…a woman you dated had an abortion or something right…but i am sure you would expect all the women who are raped at uva to have their babies right sean?–make sure you promote the culture that leads to unplanned pregnancies– very straight reasoning i must say!
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HooRyou, you are making extraneous claims that have nothing to do with Sean’s argument: “you hate women, that is clear.” Making rude claims with no backing is not the way to win anybody’s heart to your side. In fact, it only makes people immediately discredit your argument, as I almost did. I agree with Sean in the fact that FIFE takes things way overboard, and are in this case too. Getting rid of the entire Rugby Road song (when it was made as a drinking song) because some kids posted obscene lyrics is stupid, and they need to realize this.
In terms of your argument to oldhoo72, he merely said it was a dangerous song but singing the lyrics INTENDED TO BE SUNG (drinking song) are so dangerous to kids that it is destroying us. The second two lines of your argument should be completely disregarded. Please learn how to debate. If this were a real debate, I would have paid no attention to you, but you actually managed to say something reasonably intelligent in the first part of your post.
True, we must be sensitive especially about the domestic violence part. But I will repeat. The point of this song is a drinking song. People can make any lyrics dirty and add them to any song. But the lyrics that were sung along with the version the marching band played (back to the original argument) are about drinking, something probably more than 2/3 the students at UVA do, something that is legal. It’s a drinking song. It’s a tradition. I agree that the vulgar lyrics should be taken off UVA’s website (please share the .edu link you found, if it in fact is related to UVA’s website), but I do not believe the song should not be played.
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uva gentleman…have no doubt…im not gonna exert my energy to debate with individuals like you who are clearly a lost cause. if you dont have the brains to see why this song is disgusting and should never be brought back, thats your issue, not mine…I find it comical…and as for my arguments for sean, perhaps you dont know sean’s reputation on the cav daily but he is a regular contributor (we are all blessed) and i am simply stating facts that anyone would know having read sean’s posts over a period of time…so do have fun debating this topic with yourself and your frat boy cronies and good ole alumni…i am really sorry that i dont find it an issue too worthy of debate…
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The FIRST VERSE of “Rugby Road” is the only one I have ever known or heard sung in public. That verse is simply an innocuous drinking song which is as much a fabric of The University as the Lawn, Rotunda, Honor System, and all the other unique features known to all who have had the honor to attend and graduate from Mr. Jefferson’s University. If
“Rugby Road” offends anyone, I am truly sorry; however, those who are offended have options – go to another university, don’t attend U.VA. sporting events, and don’t venture outside your residence lest you discover something else which might offend your tender sensibilities. Grow up, join the real world, and focus on making a positive contribution to society.
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I refer you all, especially the older gents, to the post I submitted above late on December 7th (Pearl Harbor Day, soon to be renamed “Lets All Smoke Pot in Memory of John Lennon Day).
Given that there are bunch of folks here adding agism to their sexism and partisan bitterness, I’m thinking that over break I might write a few even newer verses for this song which reflect some of the more recent negative attitudes and habits of the UVA student body and administration. Hmm.. Where to begin..
Note that the so called feminists, to a person, still have no interest whatsoever in discussing recent sexual assaults on women or men dropping dead on Grounds. No wonder they’re defending the Women’s Center!
Speaking of which, can somebody direct me to where at UVA the Men’s Center is?
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HooRyou,
Sorry you basically caved in. By being a “lost cause” I assume you mean I think this song’s first verse should be brought back to football games. Yes, I do. In fact, I don’t see why a drinking song shouldn’t be brought back. Honestly, what’s comical is people like you who defend throwing it out because of the lyrics that aren’t meant to be sung for it. Get a brain, learn how to debate, and grow the f**k up. Here’s the real world, it’s not all pixie dust and rainbows and pleasantries, your ears should get used to a drinking song. Or, like OLD67HOO said, go to a different university or avoid sporting events.
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UVa Gentleman,
Look at yourself. Falling apart arent you? What, have you had too many? To be honest, you want your song?…BRING IT BACK- Go Ahead- just confirm everything everyone already knows about Uva Culture and the likes of “Uva Gentlemen” like yourself! Why not? Hey, Im sure when George Huguely’s murder trial rolls around this coming spring, the press corps will join along in singing too. Gee, its just a harmless drinking song right? Sheesh people grow up! Right man? Yea man? And as a woman, I’ll just go back to my world of “pixie dust and rainbows and pleasantries” where us women reside. Or better yet, I will transfer, so Uva can go back to the 1960s and you and Mr. Old67Hoo himself can have the place all too yourself- the way you like it- nice and homogenous. That way you wont have to respect anyone and you can all join in your drinking song games. So thank you Mr. Gentleman for enlightening my world view with your infinite wisdom. Goodness me, i must say ive learned a lot.
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You see, you really can’t blame the kids themselves. They get this crap pounded into their heads 5 days a week by the UVA that Casteen & co. have created. Students drop dead on Grounds, women are assaulted regularly by blackout drunk and high guys, everything is covered up – and all they want to talk about is an old song.
HooRYou, George Huguley is a product of your generation’s culture (the arrogant, entitled, monied, full of themselves one) at UVA. He has nothing to do with 1967. There was far less violence against anyone, including women, in their time. Have a look at what happened to crime rates in America from 1965 to 1975. I’m sure your professors will hate you if you ever mention this, so don’t.
These FIFE types really don’t care about some verses to a song that nobody’s ever heard sung after the first. They’ll make them up if they have to. These same gals will be bumping and grinding on Rugby Road at 4 am blasted out of their minds on all sorts of things to Snoop Dog bragging about all his bitches and ho’s. It’s about projecting a lunatic left political agenda that they have been told by their faculty they must pursue – and keeping people from getting focused on the important stuff.
As it is at most liberal universities, the drug culture at UVA is as large as it ever was – but now it is very carefully protected. Huguely’s toxicology report is of no more interest to them than why a frat guy dropped dead last semester – except with regard to keeping it quiet if they can. Everybody knows, but none of them are talking. The cover ups work just fine for them.
That includes students attacking Townie women. It’s “different.” Not interested. Instead, they dream up these fake “controversies” to divert attention from what has really become of your Alma mater, and their grand canyon sized gaps in attention when it comes to the seedier side of UVA – right – now. They don’t have any respect for anyone unless they march lockstep with everything they froth on about.
Sing Rugby Road’s first verse as a fond old memory of Easter’s? Well, then of course you are a fascist, racist, sexist monster. Doesn’t matter if they do far worse every week. This is what they are taught here at UVA. Just listen to them.
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HooRyou, I still can’t believe you’re in an uproar about a drinking song. That people added lyrics onto. Honestly, I’m baffled and shocked. Seriously, look at what you’re saying. What are you honestly mad about? You’re mad about the extra lyrics that UVA students made up in the 60′s/70′s. You’re arguing with me about something that I’m not even considering, that isn’t even in my argument. My argument is to bring back a UVA tradition of a drinking song that most people love because it’s fun and harmless, until the rest of you bring up lyrics that were made after the fact. When played, nobody has time to sing the extra lyrics, nor spread them. The original lyrics are the popular ones. They are about drinking. They can’t even be ARGUED to be misogynistic. Please, stop arguing about something I’m not even talking about. Please. It’s making me rather annoyed.
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Oh- the world stops- Mr. Gentleman is annoyed. Shocked! Baffled! And because he doesn’t find certain objections to be relevant- HOW DARE i mention them… news flash Mr. Gentleman. The world does not revolve around you and your arguments and debates. If you think this is an actual debate and you are honing your argument skills, you are sadly mistaken. It is a sad article and sad discussion about a group of old boys who want to bring back a pathetic drinking song to a school they don’t even attend anymore. Its 2010 dears..things have changed. And Mr. Gentleman…you still haven’t answered the question…how will the national press view your sexist tunes when the George Huguely trial rolls around? Im pretty sure thats pretty darn relevant
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Maybe they are just astonished that UVA is producing students like you, HooRyou, that are this far detached from reality and blinded by a political agenda to the point where you cannot see anything but through your very narrow minded blinders. You really sound like a 5 year old ranting on about lyrics none of these guys have ever heard of, don’t defend, and won’t sing. Yet you blather on about how they are horrible sexists. YOU are the sexist, and the agist for that matter. That’s how you try and divert attention away from so many things – including your lack of ability to have a reasonable debate about something.
This thread illustrates that female supremacists are just as narrow minded, uninformed, and vile as white supremacists. Pretty much nobody is listening to either of them anymore. Good riddance.
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hahah you are one funny man Sean
Do you consider yourself to be a narrow minded, uninformed and a vile white supremacist? Just curious, you know….be interesting to hear your response…
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HooRyou, I’m currently a student, so don’t make claims for which you have no backing. You keep going on about sexism, blahblahblah, please. You have yet to acknowledge that my argument is to bring back a drinking song, not other lyrics that any student could make up at any school. You’re acting like a politician, avoiding the question, trying to prove yourself right by talking about things that aren’t relevant but still managing to swing dull-minded people who can’t think for themselves to your side.
I will state one last time before I ignore you for your ignorance. I want to bring back the tradition of the drinking song, a UVA school song, to football games. The music. To the game. Not lyrics you keep mentioning that are “sexist.” Please tell me what you think of this, and don’t waver from that topic or else, seriously, nobody will listen to you. Including myself.
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HooRyou, we already know who you are are. One of the 2% or so of people on Grounds who actually think they are doing something besides annoying people now and then with your incessant ranting about this or that – with no quarter given to the facts, and no response offered to the most reasonable of debate points. This is your world. Your very narrow, very hopeless world that you will soon find out the real usefulness and size of once you are out of your protected cocoon here.
fyi, I don’t attend UVA – but my female undergraduate roomate does. And her skin is about as black as skin gets. I fell asleep on the couch the other night (the first really cold one) and she threw a blanket over me when she got home before she went to bed. Now, I’m sure in your mind, this immediately means that she must be my slave – or some sort of other nonsense. Nonsense is what you do best, or so it seems here. But the rest of us live in the real world. Not the one your looney tunes professors and the folks at the Women’s Center than routinely cover up rapes have been telling you to change. It’s why you can’t debate anyone. All you can do is try and divert people’s attention from the actual issue, because you cannot even defend your own point here.
Maybe you’re one of the gals who witnessed Huguely assaulting Love long before he murdered her, and kept quiet in hopes that their impending breakup could get you with him yourself. There are dozens of women that fit this description still here at UVA. You associate yourself with the Women’s Center – so anything is possible in that category.
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YAY BEER!
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Hhahha Sean…You are one funny little man.
You never answered the question. Do you consider yourself a white supremacist?? A chauvinist?
Please stop trying to avoid question now.
Are you? Are you?
Also, new question, do YOU consider yourself a ranter?
A narcissist?
Just some questions buddy. But I know in your world, you are a genius crusader enlightening others world view with your very on point conservative opinions. I know it must be very hard for you to step back and evaluate yourself.
And for everyone arguing in favor of this pathetic drinking song, it should tell them something that you, sean, are on their side! That says something gentleman…..something perhaps about the sanity of this ridiculous dialogue.
And no one has answered my relevant question: What are the press corp going to do about this song when they arrive to Uva to report on Huguely’s murder trial?
You really think it is appropriate to bring back a song with “extra” verses like these at the start of the murder trial? Really? Come on you “Gents”. Use your very large noogins…
“If I were to see a U-bag [coed] / A-walkin’ down the Lawn, / I’d build myself a gallows / And string her up at dawn.”
“He’ll take you to his fraternity house / he’ll fill you full of beer / and soon you’ll be the mother of / A bastard cavalier.”
She’s a helluva **** from Agnes Scott;
She’ll **** for fifty cents.
She’ll lay her *** upon the grass,
Her panties on the fence.
You supply the liquor.
And she’ll supply the lay.
And if you can’t get it up, you sunuva a *****,
You’re not from UVa.
Guess what, if I can find em, the press can find em…
We all know this is a VERY relevant question, but you are all way too intoxicated at the moment to answer… So once you sober up, maybe you will give it a whirl.
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And Uva Gentleman,
Wow dear, it must be awful hard … you know this song will never be brought back…and yet, you still wonder why…
You still wonder why you argue on the same side as the infamous Sean…
I did answer your pathetic “arguments” if that is what you wish to call them… I would prefer to call them “air”. When a drinking song comes along with EXTRA verses, and those EXTRA verses are violent and sexists…you DO have to consider the appropriateness of the tune. Once again I will ask you, How do you think the press will handle your song once they arrive in Charlottesville this spring for the Huguely murder? Do you think they will ignore the extra violent verses as you are trying so hard to do?
Oh, I forgot…you can’t answer this question, won’t answer it, are too bothered and in a tiff about it.
Here is a suggestion…Why dont you go to the corner and get yourself something to calm your nerves…And then after you can attend an aAA meeting and talk about this drinking song there.
and trust me, i had no doubt you were a U.Va student…. Should you be? Now that IS another question.
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All you girls from Mary Wash and RMWC, never let a Virginia Man an inch above your knee . . .
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HooRyou
One Chill. Extra verses to Rugby Road come and go. Very few people know more than the first verse. My first-year suite made up a few, which we promptly forgot by our second year. The attention you are providing will only increase interest in the song – and the very lyrics that bother you. Your rants will achieve the opposite of your intended objective.
Two From all appearances, there will be no George Huguely trial.
Three The marching band version of Rugby Road was boring – as are many of their songs. The instrumentation and Pease’s heavy-handed arrangements create a very limited ensemble.
Four I am all for the marching band changing up its repertoire. There are a number of UVa songs available – and yet to be written – that could be used. The UVa football team needs all the help it can get. The Cavalier Marching Band was promised to bring extra wins. Instead, UVa has not beaten VT since its inception. I’ll take the Pep Band back anyday if it means beating VT (3-1 during my time at UVa!) and going to a bowl game every now and then.
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HooRyou
You are, hopefully temporarily, obsessed with nonsensical sexist, chauvinistic college songs.
Might I direct you to the proud traditions of Mount Holyoke College of South Hadley, MA and Smith College, Northhampton, MA?
My wife and many of her friends graduated from those esteemed women’s schools. They have all achieved much in their professional and personal lives. And – they have a repertoire of songs that make a Wahoo blush! But that’s one of the joys of marrying the former president of the Mt. Holyoke Glee Club (all women, of course). Just don’t get caught in a sing-off between the women of Mt. Holyoke and Smith.
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This is the kind of wingnut the Women’s Studies/Women’s Center cabal produces. They must know that nobody is going to pay them to annoy people after graduation, so maybe this is the “impress the faculty and staff” rantings that she hopes to get a paid internship from. The most loyal and lunatic of them will get the job, I assure you. These people hand out the morning After Pills to 13 years olds – including boys! – every day like they are candy. Not even a blood test for clotting agents. They know their victims will be quiet.
This has nothing to do with women’s rights or health or any of that. if it did, they wouldn’t be complicit in all the cover ups of sexual assaults and rapes. I have a close friend who was one of them once, when she was on student council a little less than ten years ago. She’s told me all about how the Women’s Center works.
Has anyone found the Men’s Center yet? Talk about sexist…
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How sad that people (mostly men here) of UVA (past and present) spend so much energy defending an offensive sexist relic of drinking song rather than being honest and dealing with the schools historic and recent past of supporting an atmosphere where women are demeaned. HELLO—one of the school rugby players viciously killed his girlfriend last year at the old U of VA! And I believe other posters here when they say that rapes and assaults are routinely covered up.
I remember overtly sexualized treatment of female coeds at just about every major event from when I attended UVA 30 years ago. WAKE UP and join the 21st century. Women will not support a song that has been used in the past to assault their dignity. Period. End of story.
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Well said WakeupUVA!
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I followed a link to this article and debate from a poll in a e-newsletter I got from the U.Va. Magazine. I voted in favor of the song in an online poll before reading the article, because I only knew about the fairly innocuous first few verses and chorus. But, honestly, although I don’t care for the tone of this discussion, I have to admit I was wrong.
I did not realize how offensive some obscure verses are and, indeed, failed to consider how even the “bastard Cavalier” verse I knew well must sound to women who have been sexually assaulted. And there are far too many young women who are horribly mistreated by young men fueled with testosterone and alcohol.
Folks, we need to let some traditions go or, at least, as another commenter suggested, not celebrate them so publicly when they so obviously are wrong and hurtful. I was a member of a fraternity and graduated in 1980, by which time the woman at U.Va. were at least the equals of the good ol’ boys who still think they own the place. I married one of them.
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HooRyou WANTS the national media to cover this song at length, as much as possible, if/when they come to C-Ville again to cover the Huguely trial. Think about it. Football season is over. This will not be an issue again until the band starts practicing in late August. There is no reason that any press corps would ever hear about a silly controversy about a sing song. Certainly not in January.
But there are some behind the scenes who, very obviosuly, want to thrust this to the forefront – and make this idiotic debate about lyrics nobody’s ever heard (except here) into what gets covered – and how they can spin the Love tragedy to their advantage. You know, make themselves look like they are taking on the culture rather than coddling and protecting it every day. There are some very important reasons for this diversions. They simply don’t want the really heinous stuff hid in the shadows around here to get the attention of national media. I think that’s what this manufactured ‘controversy’ is all about. And that’s why this HooRyou gal keeps mentioning the national press corps. She (I have to guess her gender) is probably involved with the Women’s Center, who in turn are deeply connected to the administration and their 20 year tradition of keeping what lies beneath at UVA hushed up. This is how they plan to exploit a tragedy, spin it a certain political way (see: “gender violence”) and keep what they hide hidden by diverting everyone’s attention to some other so called issue.
I know the woman who was attacked a few dozen feet from the Women’s Center at the beginning of what is now last semester. I saw her soon afterward with the side of her face swollen black, blue, and yellow – and listing sideways favoring three broken ribs on her left side. She told me of the attack, and her attacker. She barely escaped him, and said she could easily ID him as “the UVA guy” who had approached her earlier that night. I of all people was stupid enough to ask her why I hadn’t heard about this attack in the media. She reminded me of who I was and what I think about how UVA works, and looked at me like I was an idiot. Indeed, I felt like one. Her father is ready to come down on UVA every way he can think of. She is a very bright student (4 degrees at community college already) and had a free ride to transfer into UVA. But she will now be refusing that and going elsewhere, as the administration stonewalled the investigation and made sure nobody in the local media covered it. Suffice it to say that Mr. Cuccinelli may just have the means now to make the Mann/Climategate controversy seem like small potatoes. Notice how even this “HooRyou” person is , despite her ranting on behalf of protecting women – has not expressed the slightest interst whatsoever about this woman who was brutally attacked and nearly raped at her own school. It tells you all you really need to know.
Additionally, take a look at the way the Huguely trial is shaping up. We now know what drug(s) were in the victim’s system that night – but not the perp’s! Think about that. Think about what UVA must be doing behind the scenes to make sure nobody knows what ole Georgie had consumed that day and night. Rumor all over grounds is that he drank all day with his dad playing golf, late nighted downtown, and did various drugs aong with being extremely drunk. The typical lacrosse Sunday Funday. Everybody knows how those teams (men and women) party. It’s not a secret! The bartender/manager at Boylan Heights dared to mention what condition those guys ARRIVE at his bar in in this newspaper a few weeks after the murder, and was promptly fired the next day. Thereafter, all the girls who work there were told they were no longer allowed to wear socks or pants anymore – because it was time to look MORE prep school in short skirts and sneakers. Go have a look for yourself. You can’t make this stuff up..
UVA might still get its way and work out a plea deal between the two families – and avoid the trial and the coverage altogether. They don’t want any media in this town that they don’t control covering anything they don’t want them to know about what lies beneath around here. Hell, they might even dare to ask why it is that a 21 year old student dropped dead on Rugby Road one Friday morning last April! They have such a walk in sized closet full of skeletons at this point, they must be really nervous..
I met a guy on the corner recently who works at one of the local TV stations. Over beer and football games, I brought up these topics, and told him the story of my friend. All he could say is that he
knows that’s how it works around here, and that he was looking to get out. He loves Charlottesville and has a mortgage and bills to pay – but he is embarrassed by his workplace, and how obediently they do (and don’t do) what UVA tells them to. They are by far the largest advertiser in town, and these media companies are struggling to meet payroll as it is.
Don’t be confused about a manufactured controversy about am old song. It’s just a smoksecreen. Don’t take the bait that these articles and these posters are trying very hard to feed to you. There are some really big stories and some really horrible things going on around here right now. This song isn’t one of them.
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Two points:
1. The fact that everyone is this inanely bent out of shape about a historic song is ridiculous. It’s silly, goofy tradition and it’s just not serious. There are a number of verses that are innocuous, but those just get swept along with the rest. Here’s an example:
From Carol’s to The Corner
We will drink our beer and shout
And if the faculty objects
They can always throw us out
So fill your cups, your loving cups, as full as full can be
For as long as love and liquor last, we’ll drink to the U of V
(Now, before anyone has stroke over this, Carol’s was a tea house, not the abode of any woman.)
2. Regardless of who finds a spoken/written item offensive, we shouldn’t jump too quickly at the chance to prohibit its use. Censorship is a dangerous thing to play with and is certainly an affront to Mr. Jefferson’s founding principles.
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does anybody know the exact “rugby road” lyrics about the offensive local female cop who gets repeatedly raped and humiliated by the uva lacrosse team?
vive le cavaliers
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I started at UVa in 1952 in Kent House (new dorms). My second year I moved to Elliewood Ave. on the corner,
and joined Kappa Sig fraternity. We had great parties, including the infamous Quadrangle Party at Easters. Our
dates came from Hollins, Sweetbriar, etc. There were 4,300 students, including all graduate schools and nursing.
Life was good; we dressed and behaved like gentlemen. There were no rapes that I remember. Classes were
small, and grade inflation was unheard of. We didn’t lie, cheat, or steal. How sweet it was to go there then. I
don’t think that I would want to go there now. Yes, we sang “From Rugby Road” with only one verse available.
What’s gone is gone,and none of you would be able to replace it–your loss. Good luck with the new “U”.
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Sigh. This is not unexpected, following the exile of the Pep Band in favor of Big U Marching Band, and the University’s collective loss of its sense of humor. Before you jump all over me, let me tell you that I lived through the sexist early days, and survived with said sense of humor intact, thanks largely to the Pep Band. The TAs in my electrical science lab did not want women there, and did everything they could to get in the way of our success. I recommend doing real work to combat sexism and gender violence and prosecute perpetrators, but leaving alone the traditional music. Previously unknown lyrics are now in the daylight, rather than being briefly remembered if at all, and promptly forgotten. Other schools seem to be able to balance this (Harvard, Yale). If you want to go all PC all the time, never let another rap artist play any C’ville venue. Have ‘em hand over the lyrics of every “song” to be performed. Or would that be an assault on free speech and artistic license, and perhaps assembly?
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